Resilience and Adaptation in the COVID-19 Employment Era | Episode 122

Resilience and Adaptation in the COVID-19 Employment Era | Episode 122

Chapter Markers
0:00 Navigating Job Searching During Pandemic
18:37 Remote Interviewing Process Changes Over Time

Join us as we unfurl the map to navigating the unpredictable terrain of job hunting during a global health crisis. I, Justin Alan Hayes, alongside my guest Dave Kagle, dissect the complexities of remote work and the ripple effects of furloughs and job losses that professionals, like Dave, grappled with in the summer of 2020. Through our dialogue, you'll gain an intimate understanding of the emotional and practical challenges that come with seeking employment in an era where the only certainty is change. We peel back the layers on the stark realities and the resilience required to steer through such turbulent waters, offering insights that extend far beyond the surface-level job search advice.

The conversation takes an intriguing turn as we examine the transformation of the remote interviewing process, sharing firsthand stories and strategies that shine a light on the virtual hiring scene. Forget the standard "dress up and show up"—we're talking about mastering the art of video interviews, understanding the dynamic of unseen interviewers, and leveraging tools like LinkedIn to fortify your professional network from the comfort of your home. This episode is a trove of actionable tips and candid reflections that will embolden you to approach your next job opportunity with confidence, whether it's behind a screen or across a boardroom.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. I am your host, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, justin Allen Hayes. We ask you here to subscribe, like, share this episode, to give us the ability to share the content and the great experiences and stories of our guests to ultimately join in that goal of mine to help three billion people over the course of my lifetime and beyond. Voices for Voices is the number one ranked podcast and TV show where people turn to for expert mental health. Where people turn to for expert mental health recovery and career advancement intelligence. Our TV show and podcast is all about teaching you insanely actionable techniques to help you prosper, grow yourself, your self-worth and your personal brand. So if you're a high achiever or someone who wants more out of life, whether mentally, physically or spiritually, please make sure you subscribe to our TV show and podcast right now. As you can see, the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast publishes episodes that focus on case studies, real-life examples, actionable tips and in-the-trenches reports and interviews from subscribers just like you. If that sounds like something that could help you or somebody you know grow personally or professionally, then why don't you join me by subscribing to our Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. You can find our social media handles or profiles on Facebook, instagram, linkedin, x, tiktok, as well as video on Vimeo, on our YouTube channel, and the audio file from all the podcasts, all the TV shows that we do on your favorite audio platform, if it's Apple Podcasts, if it's Google Podcasts, spotify, iheart, podcast, addict wherever you look you can find the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. Wherever you look, you can find the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. A programming note in 2024, we as an organization are conducting a biweekly show called the Biweekly Roundup, where we, on our Voices for Voices Facebook channel, we talk about current events that are affecting us as a community, as a city, as a state, as a county, as a nation and as a member of the global society. We're able to answer and talk about again more current events that are closer in timing than when we were filming this particular episode and other episodes where we film and then a period of time before we're able to air them. So that 2024 biweekly roundup you can find that on our Voices for Voices Facebook page. Keep your eyes peeled for information coming up soon about our fourth annual Voices for Voices a brand new day gala happening in October, so it's hard to think that we're on our fourth anniversary of that event. Keep your eyes peeled for the lineup of music, of presenters, of award recipients and again, as always, we have sign language interpretation from the Kent State University American Sign Language Program. So it's always a joy to be able to bring that aspect to include that voice for those that are able to consume content in that manner.

Speaker 1: 4:13

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Speaker 1: 5:16

So today's episode is kind of part two of the conversation that we're going to have with our guests. The earlier podcast that you all have seen last week will cover the content of what it's like to have a child on the autism spectrum the different hurdles that have to be overcome to ensure getting your child the diagnosis if needed, and then the care of how we're going to help this child. And so we're going to have the same guest today, mr Dave Cagle. He's joining us from Columbus Ohio. He is a personal friend for many years and he is a wealth of information, which is why we're having two episodes having him be so transparent and discussing his child on the autism spectrum. And in this episode he's going to talk about job searching throughout the pandemic and changing jobs and careers, as that had a large impact on, I'd argue to say, almost all jobs that are high percentage of jobs that are available. So he's going to give us his insight today. So, dave, thank you for joining us for the second episode.

Speaker 2: 6:51

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1: 6:52

Yeah, you bet. So maybe we can open up the floor and you can share your experience job searching, interviewing, changing jobs during the pandemic and how that may have differed in earlier times when it wasn't a pandemic.

Speaker 2: 7:14

So, like a lot of folks early on in the pandemic, I found myself working remotely in a different situation and the company I was working for made the decision to do a furlough. I feel like a lot of people were subject to that, depending upon the field. You were in in the downside my company is. When they did that. As some of the months went on, the furlough turned into no, those associates are not returning. The company was not doing as well as we had thought they were. So I found myself in a situation where I was taking on more job responsibility. Our pays had been frozen. In some cases pay was cut.

Speaker 2: 8:15

So I found myself in a job role where I was taking on additional responsibilities with no promise of reward or anything in sight. It was really just kind of a keep the lights on situation. I was doing my best to go along with everything that was going on. Times were tough for everybody, but that was through the spring of 2020. And then through the summer when things started I wouldn't say calm down, but when some of the picture of okay, this is just kind of how things are going to be for a while started to get, the picture became clearer on how things were going to work. For a while it was going to be okay, people are going to work remotely. Essential employees will test, mask up and show up. A lot of companies kind of adjusted to that on the fly and got back to business as usual. The company I worked for was just kind of holding steady. They had gotten to the point where they could continue to operate, but getting a pay cut back was not on the cards. Adding staff was just not on the cards.

Speaker 2: 9:42

I made a difficult decision to seek other employment opportunities and at that time, any any. All the positions I had interviewed for had always been uh. Interview process was typically the. The application process didn't change, but my interviews were always in person. I never interviewed for a position that was. My interviews were always in person. I never interviewed for a position that was outside of where I lived or not outside of a reasonable driving distance to be there for an interview. So I was not sure how it was going to go, but I was prepared. I said, well, I'll figure it out, I'll ask questions.

Speaker 2: 10:22

So through the job application process which worked pretty much the same as every other job search I've done. Things that were different is when it was called by recruiters and human resource representatives. It was no in-person interviews whatsoever for the positions I was looking for. I'm an IT professional by trade, so a lot of times they don't feel the need to, sometimes they don't you have feel have you need come in person for during normal circumstances for those job roles. But it was no in-person interviews whatsoever.

Speaker 2: 11:04

I had to make sure that I had first of all, like everyone else, scrambled to find a decent webcam or made sure that the computer I had at the house or devices I had at the house had a decent webcam. So it was part of the setting up. The interview process was a lot different and to make sure, okay, you have to have a camera. Camera has to have a working microphone. And then back my head, I have to think make sure that I have my setup in an area of the house that I have some privacy. You know, check, put myself on camera, look, look, look what's behind me and make sure it's nothing. Nothing to nothing. That would be deemed unprofessional.

Speaker 2: 11:58

You know every company is different, so I had to. I had to adjust on the fly and you know questions you never really thought of before. It was more concerned of okay, what am I supposed to wear? Or what suit or tie combination am I going to wear to this interview? You didn't really think about what room is it going to be in. Now, all of a sudden, you find yourself with okay, I have to ask what attire is acceptable? Will I be full body?

Speaker 2: 12:29

on camera or will I only be from the waist up? Luckily, the places I interviewed they were completely fine with just how you and I are speaking now waist up. So it was an adjustment. I still made sure I maintained whatever I always assumed for business professional attire, but I was asked as well. But you know. So a button-down shirt and a tie was good enough for a remote interview via Teams or Zoom or Cisco WebEx, whatever the company's preferred video conferencing technology was. That was something that was an adjustment. The second one was ensuring that I didn't have any distractions in the room that I was doing the interview.

Speaker 2: 13:24

Typically, you go on site for an interview. They put you in a conference room. Some places may or may not make you turn in any personal electronic devices. You have no paper, no, nothing. You kind of have to recite or have everything prepared from memory. So it was getting myself in a spot in the house where, okay, I don't have a bunch of distractions, the tv in the background is not turned on, um, I don't have to worry about somebody coming downstairs if I'm right now my work from home setups in the basement. So making sure no one comes downstairs. Um, making sure you know microphone works, camera works, making sure the internet a solid internet is there.

Speaker 2: 14:12

Conducting the interview was mostly the same with the, with the, with the companies. There were a few instances where it was different. Submit there were some difficulties with focusing because as an IT professional I kind of stay on latest and greatest technology, but with some of these interviews I could tell the individuals on the other end were either using company-issued equipment to conduct the the interview or, um, I believe one time someone was actually taking the, taking the phone, uh, taking the interview call from their cell phone sitting in their car, and I wasn't going to let that affect my process. But I just in my head I said, wow, how far we've come given the circumstances. And then I noticed too one of the things that adjusted is, rather than experience, at least from my perspective, for the positions I interviewed, for the companies, I interviewed with a lot of them. Rather than doing multiple rounds of interviews, would schedule a longer video call and have all stakeholders on the one call and you would just take turns answering the questions for the whole group. Rather than meet with a potential counterpart and then come back and meet with a manager and then come back and meet with a director or a VP. It was everybody was in the room at the same time, just rapid fire. So making sure your your eye position was good and you weren't, you know, looking off the ceiling or anything like that. Those that was. Those were some unique challenges as far as the interview process went, I know. For me the second factor in that was okay, you went through the interview process. It was similar in the follow-ups as send a thank you email or if some people are still writing thank you letters. I know that's how you and I were coached in college was to write thank you letter, but I feel like that might not be common practice much anymore. You know you get a return phone call from HR and they want to make you an offer.

Speaker 2: 16:43

Because I actually changed jobs twice during the pandemic, it was okay. Typically you would have to come on site. In the past I've had to come on site to do some sort of paperwork or drug testing, background check type stuff. Okay, how's that going to work? Um, one company it was. They sent me everything through email and it was okay, here's all your paperwork, sign it and, uh, either scan an email or, if you have access to a faction machine, fax it back to us and, oh well, here's the information, here's the facility you need to go to do standard drug tests for us. They'll take care of the results. But you know, here's all the procedures you have to follow. I know the second time I changed jobs I ended up having to go on site for some of the processes again. But at that time we were almost a year into COVID, so we had protocols and procedure in place for that kind of stuff where we didn't have it in the beginning.

Speaker 2: 18:02

That kind of stuff where we didn't have it in the beginning. Um, so, you know showing up making sure I had my mask on, uh, my hand sanitizer ready to go, uh, it wasn't constantly fidgeting or you know touching too many things in the room I was in and you know, just it, it, it's just, it was just, it was an interesting, an inch, one of the more interesting things.

Speaker 2: 18:26

I've been through in my life. I will say I felt like the interview process was a little bit easier. The stress Some people get overstressed by the entire interview process. Some people get overstressed by the entire interview process Not having to worry about when I would interview in person. Before I was one of those people that I liked to get there early and then I'd kind of chill out in the car for a minute to kind of calm down or maybe chew some gum and make sure my breath was fresh and, you know, make sure I was hydrated. With the remote interviews it was a little bit more relaxed. I wasn't as stressed out because I was in my house, at home or at, you know, my parents' house. So it was more of a relaxed, calming environment already. So it was more of a relaxed, calming environment already. You know the formalities of we don't. You know we're only going to see this.

Speaker 1: 19:40

So you could wear sweatpants and slippers and your buttoned up shirt and tie and it didn't make any difference. Yeah, yeah, the differences. Well, there's differences there. Like you mentioned, there are some similarities with filling out an application and submitting profiles and that, but from the actual interview itself, there were also some similarities, but there were some differences. Like you mentioned, having more people on the call, having just that easier, where might be a four or five different people on on one interview? And, like you said, it's just rapid fire and you're, you're trying to answer as best you can, and and then another question comes, and then another question did you find yourself getting, while the process might have been and still is in many instances, very, very similar, did you find yourself getting stressed out, all knowing that there were five people on the call versus one-on-one or one and two? I'm just curious. I'm just curious.

Speaker 2: 20:42

One of the things I quickly learned, one of the things I adapted to, was I would always ask the recruiter or HR representative how many individuals will be on the interview. Okay, so I could mentally prepare myself for the rapid fire situations, and they were more than happy to let me know. I interviewed for I believe it was between both job searches I had video interviews with five different places. One of the interviews was more, was the most interesting because it was all audio. Oh, okay, there was no video. I was on camera but the associates were not. Oh, I don't know if that was a, I don't know, I don't know if that was just a technology limitation or something, but knowing they could see me but I couldn't see them was very interesting, very interesting, yeah, yep, yeah.

Speaker 1: 21:56

I mean I'm thinking from being an instructor at Walsh University, those instances where we have Zoom classes for one reason or another and during the pandemic there were students you know they would log in but that you couldn't see their face. So you know, are they laying in bed or what's going on? It's like they're like, well, I'm here and so to have that be an interview and have the job and the salary and the benefits, all those things tied to it and have it be so like the spotlight is just on you, you're being interrogated, but you can't see the people that are interrogated.

Speaker 1: 22:42

That is an interesting. That's an interesting thought. So at the place of employment you're at now, we don't have to name it, but from a process standpoint, have the interviews processes changed at all since you've been there? So, like somebody that's applying at your place of business, is it completely changed or is it very similar to when you went through that process?

Speaker 2: 23:11

From my perspective and I'm not in a managerial position, so I don't get to participate in a lot of interviews. But in the two and a half years I've been in this role, I've had to help interview some contractor candidates as well as some full-time candidates, and from an IT side, the process hasn't really adjusted that much. From an IT side, our initial interview is almost always done via Teams, or our chosen collaboration video tool is Microsoft teams. So all of us, all of our interviews are initially through teams. Okay, so the initial interview is almost always that way and it's a similar situation where we'll have a candidate and then the group of us will all be on the same call.

Speaker 2: 24:04

What's different a little bit in our situation is when I interviewed for this position, they had the entire reporting chain on the call, or two managers, two members of two people who are on the same team I am, and then representatives from other teams in IT, and then two-thirds of the way through the call, they ended up adding a director, and I learned after the fact that they typically will add that certain director if they think you're a good candidate and they want to get that feedback immediately. Okay, that was kind of how they were handling things now with the processes the interview is essentially with the hiring manager and then the, the team you're gonna be working on, and then then they'll actually do a second interview conducted with just leadership staff. So they have made an adjustment there and I believe some of those interviews are still happening remote or happening in person, depending upon the job role Different job roles they want the person to come in versus. It's okay for them to be on camera. It just depends on the situation. Yeah, the initial interview for sure is still, at least for for IT positions.

Speaker 2: 25:34

Yeah, it's, it's through video. Call it. I think it makes. I think it just makes the whole process. It makes it a little bit easier on everybody.

Speaker 1: 25:44

Yeah, I can see how that makes the most sense, so we're rapidly closing in on the end of this episode. So, from a professional standpoint, if a listener or viewer wants to learn more about you, your background you're on LinkedIn, right? Somebody can find and add you as a connection and learn your background and things that are of interest from the personal standpoint or not professional standpoint, beg your pardon. Any other you know. Keeping the personal side out of it from you know Facebook and that, and keeping this, you know more of a professional episode and any other information that you'd like to share about the topic in maybe a minute or so.

Speaker 2: 26:50

I guess I would just say you know, I think you and I take for granted that everyone gets sort of a crash course in proper interviewing, of a crash course in proper interviewing. I know Youngstown State, I feel like, did a pretty good job preparing us for, okay, this is how it might go, this is how it's going to be, this should be the expectation. The Williamson College of Business prepared us for that and I take for granted that everybody knows basic interviewing etiquette. So my advice is interviewing etiquette. So my advice is, whenever you interview, make sure you dress appropriately, ask what's appropriate attire, don't assume If you're going to be on camera.

Speaker 2: 27:40

Make sure that the area around you is deemed professional. I mean, it's okay to be in your basement or in your living room or in the kitchen, but you know if. Okay to be in your basement or in your living room or in the kitchen, but you know if, if you're in your bedroom, maybe blur that background or uh, you know, uh, turn, turn the camera facing a different direction. Um, I didn't do the interviews but when they were interviewing for the position that I eventually got, some of the stories they told me were pretty funny of just people not understanding interview etiquette.

Speaker 1: 28:13

Great Well, dave. Thanks for joining us for the second episode, for being transparent on the autism spectrum and now with the job search interviewing process. We thank you for your time and being able to share your expertise.

Speaker 2: 28:35

Thanks for having me Appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 28:36

Absolutely, and this wouldn't happen without you, our viewers, our listeners. Thank you for joining this episode of the Voices for Voices TV show and podcast. Again, please subscribe, like, share this episode when you get an opportunity and until next time. I am Justin Allen Hayes, founder and executive director of Voices for Voices, and we hope that you are a voice for you or somebody in need.